Proposed new group: soc.college.gradinfo
Replaces proposal for soc.college.grad and soc.college.grad.d
Replaces previous proposal for misc.grad-schools

Summary of the proposed new group:
   soc.college.gradinfo   To be used exclusively for periodic announcements,
        in standard form, describing graduate programs.

On January 29, 1991, I initiated a CFD for a new group, misc.grad-schools,
for the dissemination of information about graduate programs.  The
proposal concept received considerable support and no criticisms, but
there was a lot of discussion about the best name for the new news
group, both through e-mail and in news.groups.  As a result, I posted a
second CFD, similar to the first in concept, but proposing two new
groups, (both under the existing soc.college hierarchy), soc.college.grad
for announcements, and soc.college.grad.d for discussions.  This new
structure also received a number of criticisms, particularly through e-mail,
suggesting that soc.college.grad.d was unnecessary, and that followup
discussions could just be placed in soc.college.  There was also a
consistent comment that soc.college.gradinfo or a similar name would
better describe the goals of the group than soc.college.grad.

This will hopefully be the final CFD for the new group, which I now
suggest should be a single group with the name soc.college.gradinfo.
Since there appears to be general agreement that there is a need for
the new group, and also that there is no clear cut name that the group
should have, this name at least seems to be as good as any other, and
I hope that we can agree on it.  If there are no major objections,
I’ll issue a CALL FOR VOTES on Saturday, March 9th.  As discussed in
the last CFD, this will be an unmoderated group, which reflects my
belief that groups should only be moderated if there are demonstrated
reasons to do so.  To keep things in order I will post a regular
monthly posting that explains the group "rules", and will also send
polite e-mail messages to anyone who goes outside the spirit of the
rules.

Charter for soc.college.gradinfo:
This news group will be restricted to the dissemination of information
about graduate programs.  Currently there are a number of relatively
expensive (and often ineffective) ways for graduate schools to distribute
information including fliers, Peterson’s Guides, professional society
student directories, etc.  The proposed new group would provide an
additional, simple place for students who are looking for graduate school
information.  In addition, for many international students it would
become the best way for obtaining information about universities in other
countries.

This will be an unmoderated group, but with a set of rules that are posted
each month.  These rules would be designed to keep the group as effective
as possible as an official source of information for prospective graduate
students.  There will be four conventions or rules:

     1. Standard Subject line, listing the degree area and the university.
          e.g. Subject: Computer Science, Montana State University
     2. Standard format in the body of the proposal.  Information to be
          filled in should include:
          (a) Name, e-address, phone, and snail-address for a contact point.
          (b) Faculty names, degrees, interests, and e-addresses.
          (c) Facilities available for graduate students.
          (d) Availability of financial support.
          (e) Degrees offered.
          (f) Specific requirements.  (e.g., GRE, TOEFL, TSE, etc.)
          (g) Deadline for applications.
          (h) Description of the university and location (150 words max).
     3. No department will be able to post more than once each month.
     4. All postings must specify a followup field of soc.college

This is a revised CFD for the proposed new group.  In addition to
soc.college, misc.education, and other similar groups, I have cross-posted
to some of the larger overseas soc.culture groups since their readers are
likely to benefit from the proposal, but following the normal USENET
guidelines for group creation, all followups are directed to news.groups,
where discussion should take place.

Denbigh S.
star…@cs.montana.edu, star…@mtsunix1.bitnet
406-994-4780 (work), 406-586-7614 (home)

I would like to open discussion regarding the possible formation of a
newsgroup to address the issues facing sororities and fraternities today.
This would be an unmoderated group.  The name I propose is soc.college.greek.

The purpose and charter of this group would be the discussion of topics
that affect greeks nationwide such as hazing, alchohol policies, public
perception of greeks, etc.  Hopefully by creating a public forum greeks
everywhere can work together to create a stronger system.  At a time when
greeks are faced with a myriad of problems including sky-rocketing
liability, poor public image and the banning of greeks across the country,
we need to address the problems we have and the problems that others have
with us.  If you have enjoyed your experience as a greek and want the
system to be intact when your children get to college, do not stand by and
let the world ditate our fate — TAKE ACTION!

This group can also be used to communicate ideas among fraternities and
provide a forum for non-greeks, greek-bashers and greeks to come to terms
with each other.  Fraternities and sororities have alot to offer college
students and I would hate to see that lost.  On the other hand some of the
concerns expressed by college administrators, greek nationals and outside
groups need to be addressed.

If it sounds like this will be an all-work newsgroup, you’re wrong.  We,
via USENET, have an unheralded chance to work together and give each other
help and advice on everything from rush to better parties to just having a
good time.

If you would like to see this group grow and be eventually promoted to a
full USENET newsgroup show your support by posting to news.groups.  Post
at will!!  Any suggestions or comments should also be posted to
news.groups.  You can also use e-mail to me, but remember we need to prove
that there is a desire to have this newsgroup created.

More information will follow on news.groups.  After approx thirty days (if
all goes well) I will call for a vote on all the newsgroups that this
notice was originally posted on.  Information on how to vote will be
posted at that time.

        Chris McKulka @ PSU   (Sigma Nu, Delta Delta Chapter)

I recently posted to the net my experiences recently when pledging a
sorority.  I have had several replies.  I just wanted to tell everyone
that pledging on my campus has been cancelled due to hazing.  That’s a
big no-no on campus, but it was happening anyway.

There are only two national organizations on our campus Delta Zeta,
and Kappa Delta Phi – both of which I have not heard anything about
hazing in.

Thanks,

Trish

Well.. I’m curious as to when Syracuse University’s Spring Break is.. as here,
at the University at Buffalo, ours is the 22nd through the 30th…

I’ll be going home to Syracuse during the time, and was wondering if school
will be in session.

)_Dennis_(
—-
…. D-Man! -=- "What’s a Solvay?" -=- Dennis G. Crawford -=- SUNY Buffalo  .
…  V119L…@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU -=- CRAWF…@AUTARCH.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU   ..
..   UUNET!UBVMSC.CC.BUFFALO.EDU!V119L…@UUNET.UU.NET -=- DGCRAWF@UMASS  …
.    "How did we get here!?        Where are we going!?" — J. Satriani  ….

On 05-Mar-91 in Horror stories              

user mdm5…@tesla.njit.edu writes:
>I have heard rumors of pledges going through hell.  I would like to
know what  
>are these ‘HORROR’ stories.  What are the stories that surround
pledging?  I am
>Greek and did not go through any such activities.  I am curious to know what
>these activities are.

nb: I’m not now, nor have I ever been ‘greek.’[ though I rushed...]

With that bias said, I remember my freshman roommates being kept up all
‘hell’ week, they had to wear their suits to every class, every day (by
Friday the suits start to look just a tad dingy .  Of course, the
brothers of the frats had ample supplies of, er, medication which helped
the pledges through the week.
Having brothers barging into the room to track down missing pledges was
no fun either (there was a heavy anti-non-greek attitude on my campus
which was something like 65% greek).  

Then there was the party where we had to go through fifteen rooms which
had alternating drinks/drugs [you had a choice as to which "test" you
would take] in each room.  

-ec
[note: these events did not take place at carnegie mellon...]

Followup-To: poster
Subject: Re: CFD:  soc.college.greek
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.college
References: <TR6-1X?@rpi.edu> <1991Mar5.031815.11229@neon.Stanford.EDU> <1991Mar8.014002.10560@athena.mit.edu>

In article <1991Mar8.014002.10…@athena.mit.edu>, h…@athena.mit.edu (Darkman) writes:
> In article <1991Mar5.031815.11…@neon.Stanford.EDU>, a…@DEC-Lite.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:
> |>
> |> The group name has little to do with the proposed topic.
> |>
> |> 1) It has nothing to do with Greece.
> |> 2) Fraternities/Sororities are about as "greek" as anal sex.

> Andy, You got something against Fraternities/Sororities?
> The postfix ‘greek’ does not require the newsgroup to be about
> Greece.  
> To me, ‘soc.college.greek’ is very self-explainatory as to the
> subject of the newsgroup.

Agreed.  If you want to subscribe to a newsgroup about greece, it would be
names soc.culture.greece…

–
* Physical attractiveness gets my attention, but a warm personality keeps it…

2…@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Maverick)

I don’t know if this is valid, but I think it’s thought provoking:
From the corrections column in a July Fresno, CA _Bee_:
"An item in Thursday’s [issue] about the Massachusetts budget crisis
made reference to new taxes that will help put Massachusetts ‘back in
the African-American.’ The item should have said ‘back in the black.’"

Obviously, either someone was trying to be a smartass, or someone made a
global change of ‘black’ to ‘African-American’ in their article(s) and then
failed to proofread it.
Just another case of PC caught with its pants down.  (feel free to interpret
this sentence as a slur against homosexuals if you so choose–it wasn’t
intended this way, but I’m not going to tell you how to see it.)
—
L. GORDON PAISLEY, PAIS…@AUVM.AUVM.EDU
THE AMERICAN UNIVERSITY
WASHINGTON, DC USA

Well, the subject pretty-much says it.  What do you think?

Daniel
—
Name: Daniel C. L’Hommedieu III   Snail: NCSU Box 21531/Raleigh/NC/27607
INet: ea…@catt.ncsu.edu         Prodigy ID: bccj33d   Tel:919 737 6143
-OBJ: "Welcome to the Literacy Self-test Hotline. Please leave your name,
  number, and a brief message using today’s word: burgeon."

Does anyone know anything about Lake Superior State U. in Sault Ste. Marie
Michigan? My brother is thinking about going there. You can email me at

                       j…@ducvax.auburn.edu

                          Thanks
                    Barry Waid

Legend:
        psb = ^>>, ^
        elan = ^>

>>Sure Israel can put it’s own troops on the line, but with who’s funding and
>>guns?

>Even the Pentagon realizes that money is nothing compared with human
>lives. Thats why they are spending billions bombing Iraq, and not
>barging in with soldiers.

Maybe the israeli govt should have realized this and sprung for some more
gas-masks for the palestinians. Anyway, since this is just a random rhetorical
comment I’m only going to say that a ground war is more expensive than an air
campaign and that even if the didn’t give a damn about lives and only cared
about the econ/politcal cost of the war, they would be bombing for reasons
of military advantage alone.

>>Israel can fight defensive and deterrent wars but can’t do much else.

>What other wars do you feel Israel is interested in? Taking over the
>middle east to further its imperialistic colonialistic aims?  My, my,
>the Iraqi propaganda machine has been more succesful than I thought.

Ok, that’s a fair response to what I said. But let me clarify:
I am claiming that their is a difference between deterrence and compellance
(this is an idea developed by Thomas C. Schelling in his book Arms and
Influence … for clairification and credit purposes). Whereas you might
disagree I think there is a difference between "getting someone *not* to do
something" vs. "getting someone to do something" … the traditional (but
perhaps dated) example being, deterring the SU from taking over Western
Europe vs. compelling them to get out of W. Eur. after a successful invasion.
I believe the relevance to the current Gulf Crisis is obvious.
The second point is that Israel isn’t strong enough to play the role of the
Balencing Power/Policeman of the Gulf.
The US is the only country in the world that has the military and economic
resources to fulfill these two functions.

>>And the actaions taken against Israel certainly have changed
>>tactical/diplomatic planning

>Um, wrong. All this was thought out well before the war.  Everybody
>knew Iraq was going to attack Israel. Aziz actually said so in Geneva.
>It came as no surprise.

I didnt mean that everything changed the day after the first SCUD hit Israel.
Who cares what Aziz said … the signal to noise ratio coming out of Baghdad
is pretty low.
Also it’s wrong to say that everything was planned out in advance …
1. We didn’t know what form the attack on Israel would take (chemicals?
terrorism, incursion into Jordan).
2. Thus even if the Israelis could have told us, we wouldn’t know what the
Israeli response would have been.
3. Thus we could not have guaged what the Coalition reaction to Israel’s
actions would have been … since we wouldn’t know what hypothetical
scenario to propose.

>>Israel is using this as leverage to get increased US aid

>The U.S. is organizing aid to Egypt and Turkey, just because of the
>war, but not to Israel, in spite of the fact that this war is costing
>Israel far more than it is costing any of the other two.

I dont believe you. Substantiate that.
(anyone facts in favor or contrary … might have to go to alt.desert-shield)
>Whats your point? That Israel tricked the US into a war it didn’t
>want?  I think that you need to review the facts. Who started the war?
>What country got invaded? Which countries asked the US to come and help it?

Look, I never said that. I have repeatedly said that Iraq is completely to
blame for "naked agression" any claims of legitmacy (british imperialism etc)
are pretty much irrelevant for the present since it does not justify raping a
nation. And my rebuttal to the "you are juding with western morality" is that
it’s more than "western morality" given the almost unanimous vote to codemn
the aggression in the UN … which is about the best barometer for world
public opinion you can find. For the people who persist and claim that WPO is
bunk, i can live with that too, since if there is no (practical not absolute)
"International Morality" than we are in a Might Makes Right System … thus
the US has the right to do whatever it damn(ocratically)-well-pleases.

Anyway, my point is simply this: The proximity of Israel, while being far less
significant than the oil and BoP issues, is a factor in the US commitment.
I’m not claiming that it is a Necessary and Sufficient Condition. Secondly,
the Israel-factor makes a difference is the strategic planning, perhaps more
in the politcal sphere than in the military realm.

Ok, sorry about the "blind fool" bit but I’m really sick of being accused of
being anti-semitic or brain-washed by [racist | communist | iraqi | fascist |
satantic | nazi | whatever] propaganda for attacking the *policies* of the
state of Israel. Hell, I didnt even say very many nasty things about Israel …
but you knee-jerk people just had to jump to the worst (and even ludicrous)
conclusions.

                                                                –psb

/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\*/*\
|* Partha S. Banerjee                           Flame on, MacDuff …        *|
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